The Queen Is Dead, Long Live the Queen!

[aggienaut]

   So this guy Greg I work with... I don't really mind that he's crotchety and sometimes speaks to me quite rudely and disrespectfully, I don't even mind terribly that he thinks he's my boss when he's not --I have a pretty thick skin-- but what is driving me absolutely insane is that he has many extremely erroneous ideas about proper beekeeping that he absolutely insists we adhere to (because he knows better because he's been beekeeping for "fifty years".

   During swarming season every hive should be checked at least once every sixteen days to look for and destroy any queen cells they are making in preparation to swarm ... he refuses to do this and when he's around (which fortunately isn't always -- I didn't see him at all last week, but he's been haunting me all day every day so far this week) he keeps us busy with dumb stuff so I can't get the real work (such as checking on swarm cells) done. He continued to insist its "not swarming season" even after we caught two swarms in one day!
   Two weeks ago he declared we were going to start pulling honey. "uh okay" I thought, I hadn't seen anything that was ready to be pulled out of the hives but surely he'd find that out himself right? NO! I was horrified to find he just merrily proceeded (with me unhappily in tow) to pull out half full and less than half full frames of honey out of hive after hive. I reminded him that honey is not complete, and the water content is too high, until it is capped, but he brushed that off ("that's only if there's moisture in the air lad!") and I noted that the honey isn't going anywhere, and if we waited until it was full we'd spend the same amount of time harvesting it for twice as much product, but that similarly had no effect on him. I even tried "Trevor said X" to which he'd respond "Well Trevor's wrong." And he's far far too headstrong to just tell him "no we're not doing that" (read on for tales of what ensues!)
   So I talked to Trevor, the farm owner and our boss, and Trevor talked to Greg (this is the next morning), and told him not to extract (technically, Trevor told me it was my call, but I don't know what he told Greg), so instead Greg insisted we spend the next two days throwing supers (additional hive boxes) on top of hives. I'm .... not sure why we did this. That's something you do if the honey is coming in faster than you have time to go take it off, or some hives are about full up but not others and you want to do them all at once ... AND in America we put the new box on top of the stack, so they finish the one they were working on but move up. In Australia they lift up the old box (which presumably is full or will be by the time they have time to take it off) and put the new box under it, and the bees start on the new box before finishing off the old box. Greg insisted that, of course, I was an idiot and did it wrong with the boxes I did the American way, and that all the boxes be done the Australian way. This I just chalked up to maybe being an Australian thing but later I was talking to Trevor (who does know a fair thing or two about bees) and Trevor was like "why'd you guys do that? now they're really not going to finish that half finished honey in the top box for a long time" ("yes!")...
   So anyway, basically, Trevor told him not to do any more extracting so Greg turned around and wasted several more days of my life on completely counterproductive supering. Then he disappeared for a week because he seems to hate inspecting hives and there was nothing else useless to do, so I was able to catch up somewhat on the inspections. There were still some more to do THIS week.... but come Monday morning I find out that Greg is rip roaring to go with more extractions.
   ALSO on the subject of extractions, the times I've worked in the extracting shed with Greg we've turned out a hive every ten minutes (and a dismal 7 liters per hive) -- the time I worked in the extracting shed myself I turned out a hive every 12 minutes (and neglected to note the volume but I reckon it was at least twice as much per hive since I only pulled frames that were actually full). Surely you don't need to be an MBA to see that if twice as many man hours are worked for only a 20% increase in productivity.... someone's time is being god damn wasted. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
   Greg insists that all extracting be done the same day it's pulled out of the hives (or else "it'll get cold" bloody bullshit DO YOU KNOW WHERE WE ARE???) so we were both in the extracting shed until 11pm yesterday and the day before (when, again, one of us could have not been there and productivity would have been very marginally reduced). AND, when the chain uncapper inevitably fails to uncap some of a frame, you use a "scratcher" to quickly scratch off the cappings -- but he insists it only be used to scoop under the caps to lift them off. He says "its like taking the lid off a jar!" but see the thing is, nicking the tops of the caps with the scratcher is like using a can opener to open a can whereas scooping under the caps with metal prongs that are a siginificant portion of the width of the entire cell is more akin to trying to open a can by hacking it in half with an axe. Siginificant damage is done to the combs, and it takes much much longer. He also insists on loading the extractor (a centrifuge) with the tops of the frames at the center. We agreed that cells are angled slightly upward, but where we disagreed when it came to an argument was that he insisted (as usual, quite rudely, calling me an idiot and saying I wouldn't understand because of something-no-doubt-very-derisive-I-couldn't-make-out) the centrifical force pulls things inward. Obviously I could have demonstrated how centrifical force works but at that point I just dropped it because it was getting far too unprofessional and stupid for me.

   So the other day he was merrily packing away half full frames of honey and I was kind of feeling irresponsible for not standing up to him -- after all Trevor has been quite clear that I have his permission to insist things be done right. So that day when we got to the extracting shed I tried to put my foot down on both the scratcher and extractor issues ... and on the scratcher issue it came down to him saying "just do it as I say, alright?" and me saying "well. No. Trevor has given me clear instructions to do as I see fit." To which he responded "Well I'm going to have to talk to Trevor then" (in a "I'm going to have you fired" kind of way. And on that subject I've talked to Trevor about having Greg fired but we can't because he's the trustee of some land Trevor wants to buy so we can't completely blow him off) ... and then he didn't let go of the scratcher for a long time.
   Now, who should walk in a few hours later but Trevor himself. And what should Trevor happen to say to me, as I'm painstakingly misusing the scratcher in the manner Greg thinks it should? Trevor says "Kris why don't you use the scratcher the right way??" to which I responded with a grin "I'd love to Trevor!" and what happens next but Greg about flies across the room and bellows at me "NO! I TOLD you not to do that! If I see you doing that again I'll have you replaced with a Vietnamese person who by the way would be much faster at that then you!" And there followed another argument in which Trevor and I together tried to get Greg to relent but he wouldn't. At least I feel a lot less bad about not being able to turn him around when I see that even Trevor can't. Trevor then engaged Greg in a more thorough debate about the nature of centrifical force, this time there WERE physical demonstrations (and Trevor saying "now Greg, I called up the manufacturer of this bloody thing, and HE said the tops go outward!). Greg was very obstinant even in the face of mounting demonstrative evidence but I was shocked to find he actually DID give in and start loading the extractor the correct way

   To save us all from more unnecessary extracting, Trevor has instructed me to inform Greg no new drum to put the honey in is coming tomorrow, though really it probably is. I was hoping Greg would disappear without extracting to do (which he seems to strangely love.) but looks like Greg is rip roaring to help me install new queen bees tomorrow (or as he'd probably think of it, have me help him install new queens).

   This afternoon Trevor called me to say the queens were in and I should pick them up (and that there was no honey drum), and Trevor and I agreed I'd proceed to the "Moorepark" farm to install them. I relay this to Greg, who's there with me at the extracting shed hoping for a honey drum, and Greg vetoes Moorepark and says we'll go to "606" (another property in the opposite direction) to install the queens. I forget what his reasoning was but as usual he was entirely unimpressed that his boss had just told us to go somewhere else.
   So I get the queens and catch up to Greg, who has already killed three queens to replace them and is working on a fourth. He thrusts a frame at me with a queen on it and instructs me to kill her so we can replace her. Now I'm really not entirely confident that replacing these queens will help anything, but there was nothing for it short of calling into question (or making it apparent that I call into question) the entirely of Greg's "beekeeping" skills, so I crushed her between my fingers and tossed her into the shrubs.
   "WHAT DID YOU DO THAT FOR?? ARE YOU AN IDIOT???"
   "Uh, I killed the queen and tossed her away from the hive... what part of that do you object to"
   "NO!! You put her back in the hive so the bees know she's dead and accept the new one"
   "...uh, what. Greg, there's no 'dead queen bee pheromone,' a dead queen bee smells like any other bee and they still smell HER so they don't think she'd dead. It's not like bees see her dead and go tell eachother"
   "Well how do you explain swarming with your queen smell theory?" -Greg
   "uh, what??" I was seriously at a loss as to how to respond to that because it's not really related.
   But seriously, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. They... see and/or smell the dead queen and therefore look for a new queen? That's ass backwards.


   So here's the question of the moment. Tomorrow I'll apparently be hanging out with Greg again and this requeening situation is likely come up again. I am strongly inclined to once again make a stand and come hell or high water refuse to place any dead queen bees back in any hives. As a professional beekeeper I know with certainly that it is contrary to all accepted industry practices and will lead to the bees thinking they still have their old queen and thus not accepting the new queen.
   I anticipate Greg having an absolute kiniption if I refuse to do it his way, which may not be solved until one of us actually walks off the field, but on this matter Greg is very very wrong, and our boss has on a number of occasions made it clear he wants me to steer us in the direction of industry best management practices and call Greg on his bullshit -- though causing ole Greg to have a meltdown seems also not entirely desireable.

   Thoughts, advice?


And here's an unrelated picture of an upside-down jellyfish, which would probably be a more pleasant work companion.

Comments

[mrs-tribble.livejournal.com]

Is that a Portuguese Man Of War?

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

My friend Kristine informs me it looks to be a Blubber jellyfish (Catostylus mosaicus).

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

Other Great Greg Moments:

When he insisted I not use my bowline / trucker's hitch combination to tie down my truck but use a clove hitch and a sheep shank. :Later he saw me using the truckers hitch again and asked derisively why I was back to doing it wrong. I responded that I had googled sheepshank (since its a knot we never used aboardship so I don't actually know it), and the first words of the first result were "DO NOT EVER USE THIS KNOT, it will slip under too much or too little strain"
   "BULLSHIT!" he responded, flushed immediately with rage, "I don't think every trucker in the world is wrong!"
   To which I responded "well I reckon they use the trucker's hitch Greg"
   .... he was quite pissy for some time afterwards.

(thankyou sailing for teaching me What Knot To Do!)

###

Me: "Most of these hives we requeened the new queen didn't take"
Greg: "Well you know what that means"
Me: "We have an acceptance problem?"
Greg: "Noo" (he is great at the "you are trying my patience already" no) "unlikely. you're rolling the queen"
Me: "Every time?"
Greg: "yep"
Me: "All kinds of things can lead to lack of queen acceptance, chemicals sprayed on the fields around us, the spraw we put on the trays for the beetles"
Greg: "No you're rolling the queens"
Me: [now in my rarely used I'm actually getting pissed off with your idiocy voice] "Greg. We are putting these queens in one week and opening the hive FOR THE FIRST TIME a week later and the new queen is not there. HOW ARE WE ROLLING THESE QUEENS??? We can't roll a queen in a hive we've never opened!"

I forget what he said to that but as usual he was quite pissy for some time after.

[perrie.livejournal.com]

I have no experience with beekeeping so sorry if it's a silly question - what does rolling a queen mean...?

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

Oh sorry, one of my friends who IS a beekeeper actually asked me the same question, I guess it's a Greg-ism I've heard so much lately I've forgotten is just a Gregism.

He insists that when you pull out a frame or push a frame back in to a beehive, there is a likelihood (which he asserts to be near a certainly) that the queen will be caught between the frames and "rolled" and crushed to death.

Bees are sometimes crushed in this manner, but realistically the average number of bees killed per takign a frame out and putting it back in is probably, I don't know, .7. Let's say you're really sloppy and kill 2.5 bees every time you remove a frame. A hive has an equilibrium population of 60,000, so that's a 0.004% chance that one of the 2.5 bees killed is the queen. I forget how to multiply probabilities but I'm pretty certain the odds don't improve to a very likely number until a huge number of frames are involved.

[nibot.livejournal.com]

Is the jellyfish really that color blue in real life?

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

Verily it is true!

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

You see the lack of my infamous borders on that picture -- I didn't bother to edit it at all.

[allyra.livejournal.com]

If you well and truly piss him off, maybe he'll go away and sulk for a long, long time?

You have the patience of a saint. I think I would have clocked him on the head long before now.

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

I have thought of this technique!!

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I suppose a field pre-frontal lobotomy is out?

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

hehe he might not notice ;)

[colt-4-5.livejournal.com]

wow thats a blue jellyfish! I have to say, you live quite the interesting life. Literally been around the world!!

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

:D

[angelic-mystic.livejournal.com]

Might I make a suggestion?

From the sound of things, a cast iron skillet to the side of the head may be in order. Though, on the other hand, I'd be worried about breaking the skillet.

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

ahahaha ;D

[beki.livejournal.com]

Trevor has pretty much told you that you are the boss, correct? It might be time to act like the boss. I am not saying to yell, scream, and holler at Greg, no matter how much it is warranted. Be downright polite, but firm. no matter how much Greg complains, unless he gets physical. Then all bets are off. If he has a conniption, tell him to go talk to Trevor. If he screams he is going to get a Vietnamese guy hired, tell him to talk to Trevor. If he gets pissy, too bad. His attitude is his problem. As long as you are being professional, there isn't a hell of a lot he can say. Especially if you are just as professional in front of Trevor.

You have probably already done this, but consider saying something like " technique for doing x or y may be what you did fifty years ago, but this is the way we will be doing it now. You get more yield/viable hives etc If you do a or b thing. If have an issue with this, talk to Trevor. This is what we will be doing until then". If he gets pissy, too bad so sad.

I realize that Trevor is trying to stay on somewhat good terms with Greg. I get the impression that Greg truly does not want any part of it. I think it likely is a pride thing. Not only will his land be going away, (assuming he is going to sell) but he has someone a third of his age above him that knows ten times as much.

I know you like the area, but you may really want to consider getting a job elsewhere if Greg becomes more than you want to put up with. I gather that Trevor hasn't been able to keep anyone on long in part due to Greg's behavior. I know I'd not be able to put up with Greg's behavior for long without saying something. You may want to consider if Greg is worth the ulcer he is trying to give you and everyone else. I realize that you are trying to ease things through so as not to aggravate Greg into a stroke or whatever. Some times being the boss isn't fun, and it may be time for Greg to learn that he is emphatically not the boss, nor does he know jack about what he is doing. In other words, you don't really have to put up with his bullshit.

You may want to do some research into what bee keeping practices were 50 years ago. I bet that a lot of what Greg is telling you is utter BS. I am left with the impression that Greg isn't up to talking about what they did when he was an apprentice beekeeper or whatever, I'd be curious to know. I think his issue really is a pride thing.

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your lengthy comment!

Trevor hasn't flat out said I'm "the boss," but he's on a dozen occasions encouraged me to flat out tell Greg that we're doing things the way _I_ say, so in effect I guess that's kind of the same thing.

And I feel like you're right, and I really should put my foot down and devil be damned if he walks right off the field. Which, as I said, I'm pretty sure he would NOT do something I said no matter how much I insisted. With the scraper situation he just didn't give me the scraper until hours later -- I'm pretty sure he would do his best to physically block me from performing any said disputed actions and/or go ahead and do them himself no matter what I said.

Even invoking Trevor's name as in "Trevor said we need to do X" has zero effect on him, I mean, he even argued adamantly with Trevor in person. He's... really intractable d:

Trevor informed me today, with a twinkle in his eye, that I should tell Greg that he (Trevor) ranted and raved and went absolutely batshit over the half full frames. I started today by telling Greg that Trevor had said we are absolutely only to pull frames that are 75% full or better, but that had no effect on his frame pulling. Next time I work with him (which with luck might not be till Tues) maybe I'll try to specify that very specifically 75% of the frame needs to be capped over -- that way he can't try to claim that though none of it is capped every cell is 75% full or some shit.

Oh and as to what he was doing when he was an apprentice beekeeper ... I'm pretty sure he never was. I don't think he's ever worked for anyone else, or else he'd have certainly been "educated" by whomever he worked for before.

Thanks again for your comment! I really appreciate such a thought out response (:

[beki.livejournal.com]

Anytime. :). Got a question for you. Do all the bee keeping tools you use belong to the farm, or do you supply your own? If they belong to the farm, you may want to consider getting your own that do not leave your person assuming that they aren't horrendously expensive. I'm at work, so I can't reply at length. Let us know how it's going!

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

The beekeeping tools all belong to the farm. Sharing the tools hasn't really been a problem... and there are very few tools involved really. I have been provided with a bee suit, "hive tool" and smoker. The only tool we ever share is the scratcher (I'm assuming your comment is related to my reference to him not letting go of it for awhile after we disagreed on its use), which I was thinking in general I should put in a request for a second one anyway because if two of us are going to be in there we should both be using one.

Though this reminds me of an incident a few years ago back in California where I had an assistant (in this case no question I was his supervisor) who refused to give me the lighter to light the smokers, because he objected to my decision not to stop before we got to the bee yard to put the bee suits on. Turns out it was his personal lighter I guess. The company had lighters but.. he loaded that equipment and apparently didn't load a lighter that wasn't his own. Anyway in that case it was a simple resolution -- I recommended he be terminated and he was. (:

[missfuzzybunny.livejournal.com]

This guy is the limit. He is very very threatened by your knowledge, isn't he? Hope you can tough it out until Trevor fixes things, or the old guy retires.

Love the crotchety old man avatar, very appropriate!

[emo-snal.livejournal.com]

Yeah I think he's definitely insecure about things... but knowing that doesn't make it less unpleasant! d: This last week we didn't have any disputes though so things were pretty good. And he even asked me what we were doing next or going to do about something several times so maybe he's slowly getting over it?

Haha and yes I was looking at my icons and was like YES, THIS ONE!!